"Peace and love, Sir!" No better and heart warming welcome could have been offered to our website by one of the biggest and most respected Music Icons of the last century, nonetheless that Public Image Limited bandleader and commander-in-chief Mr. John Lydon. This fine English Music Hero doesn't need any introduction at all, because his career speaks by itself. A Punk Role Model in the late 70's with Sex Pistols to then becoming the leader of one of the most loved and forward-thinking collectives of this last half century, Public Image Limited, with whom Lydon has expanded his musical and lyrical vocabulary to outstanding peaks of inspiration and creativity.
Now with a new Tour coming up in 2025, the English artist has very graciously agreed to talk to our website about what the immediate future holds for himself and for Public Image Limited, opening also very candidly to the profound impact that personal losses and his ongoing Spoken Word Tour have done on his life in recent years.
BR - John, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us at Bluebird Reviews today. We guess that you must be quite excited by starting a new Tour with P.I.L., especially considering how many tour dates are piling up, for this forthcoming Tour. What's your immediate feeling about going back on the road with P.I.L. once again?
JL - Well, it's about time I got back out and did what I do best, isn't it? I've had a tough couple of years and it's not getting any better, by sitting around at home. We have got ourselves a new drummer, his name is Mark (Wilkins) and everything, rehearsing wise, is going sensational. Now, because some friends have gathered around lately, Alan McGee (Scottish businessman and music executive) being one of them, in particular, they really inspired me and put forward the idea that touring again could be a possibility. Our previous promoters never really offered the gigs, but now it's going to get overwhelming! (chuckles) And I'm scared! It's very hard for me to prepare, because, you know, with all the tragedies and deaths and all of that (referring to the latest calamities happening in the States) plus, I'm just facing the weirdest nonsense here in America, right now, what with the fires and now we got mudslides and flooding and torrential rain.. It's just seems to be never ending problems. God does work in mysterious ways! It's very hard for me to get to grips, with things, because I'm too busy running around the house, trying to find things to repair, which I suppose is some kind of physical exercise, right? To add insult to injury, I have got an abscess now, coming up, which is a problem, because I can't get to a doctor or anything like that and equally, no one can get to me because all the roads around the area where I live are all closed. And I have already drank every bit of alcohol in the house (chuckles), which did nothing at all for me. I know, this sounds like moaning (I hope so, to people) but to me, it's just solely expressing my daily activities at home. Horrendous pressure all around! I am not just going in tour with Public Image Limited but I'm also going out and doing a talking kind of tour (called I Could Be Wrong, I Could Be Right, a tour that Lydon has been doing for the last few years around the United Kingdom) which I equally love, probably, maybe, a bit more than anything else, because I'm putting myself alone on stage and be open to questions made by the audience. A risky thing to do, maybe but I seem to enjoy that tight rope, in life. It's about time I open myself for criticism again (smiles).
BR - We were not aware that your line-up had changed, because we were under the impression that Bruce (Smith, longstanding drummer in P.I.L.) was going to tour with the band.
JL - Yes, so were we, but he's running into a serious domestic issue, which can't be resolved and for him, if he was going on tour with us, that would have exacerbated his problems even further. God bless him, we love him very much but I suppose, now, with the reliance on the technology side, behind the drums and the beats, we have to shift into a more solid Rock performance, on stage. Which might be very beneficial, it will definitely be a change, for us, allowing us to play some solid Rock stuff from the old P.I.L. catalogue.
BR – Will this be a P.I.L. Tour where you and the band will play solely the biggest hits or are you considering digging out tracks that the band has not played for a while?
JL - Yes, that's what you do, right? The catalogue is huge. We cannot play any new songs, because that would open up to copyright theft and God knows what other else problems, but we are actually going to be writing a new album while on Tour, which is something we like to do. We like to use that spare time in the bus, it's a very enjoyable way of putting a song together. And you can't run away and escape if you are crap and useless (chuckles).
BR - Did you ever consider at any point, after your last studio album End Of World in 2023, the possibility of not touring ever again, especially in view of what had happened with your personal losses (Lydon lost his wife Nora and his best friend and manager John "Rambo" Stevens within a short period of time), back then?
JL - Yes, I actually felt that, because of those seven years of intense care, personal care of my lovely Nora which was, at times, overwhelming. I felt it was damaging to me too, going all away through it. It's so difficult not to lose your temper (Nora Forster, Lydon's wife, suffered with Alzheimer's disease until her passing in 2023) and to maintain a sense of patience and dignity and understand what their dilemma is. But there were times where I thought "Damn, this Alzheimer is rubbing off on me". You do lose yourself. You lose yourself in care giving. It's a double edge sword, you're doing the best you can to make sure that the last years of her life are wonderous and good fun. But it's murderous on you, inwardly, on your psyche, draining, debilitating. But oddly enough, because Nora was such a vivacious and outwardly going person, she actually helped me, in the writing of that last album. She was a bloody huge inspiration. The album didn't turn into a sad, dreary, gothic tale of calamity and catastrophe, but it was instead a happy album. And thank you to Nora for that. There is a song dedicated to Nora, on that record, called Hawaii. I was, with the band, to go on Irish TV and perform that song live. I then took a video recording of that performance back to Nora and played it for her, when I got back, that was a wonderful gift. When she saw it, she loved it and laughed. But she asked me why I was crying, when I saw her happiness.. God, I miss her so much. There's a space in my heart that it's not recovering well.
BR - Were you expecting such a colossal reception from the UK crowds for your Spoken Words show I Could Be Wrong, I Could Be Right, especially given the fact that you have been living in the States for such a long time?
JL - People has not forgotten me and the respect I got was overwhelming. But, at the same time, it made me even sadder, because I had to do that without Nora. She hadn't died yet, at that point but I was committed to do that work and I don't like to break commitments. I was so torn between those two things, but I suppose that doing the show helped with memory and was very important for me to do that, by allowing me to open up my heart and share those memories with an audience every night. I've got to say, it was such a positive response. Anyone can be a popstar clown but can you be an open human being too? I thought that doing that show might have been a dangerous thing for me to do... I was putting my head on a chopping block, in a guillotine and waiting for it to drop. But it didn't!
Public Image Limited
Photo courtesy of Paul Heartfield
BR – Your book (I Could Be Wrong…) is a marvellous collection of random thoughts that comes across more as a personal diary than a book, a sort of prologue of what then happened on stage, with the UK crowds then having the opportunity to hear you opening up on stage about said thoughts and even more, all over the United Kingdom. Having read it, I was curious to know more about your big fascination with squirrels…
JL - (laughs) Yes, as my lovely wife got iller and iller, we sat outside our house a lot and there were some wild squirrels that were particularly fond of Nora's company. You know, we weren't bribing them with peanuts, they just seem to be very kind to her. And as days, weeks and months and years rolled by, they became very friendly and sat with her and let us stroke them. This was overwhelmingly positive for Nora. They filled her days with great pleasure. So, thank you, squirrels, who would have thought that rats with fluffy tales could be so nice? It was very very poignant, very soul rewarding, for both of us.
BR - This year, for you, it is going to be ultra-busy, between your Spoken Word show and the This Is Not The Last Tour with P.I.L., between May and August, if we are not mistaken. How do you prepare physically and mentally for such a full-on schedule like this and how important is it for you to keep in touch with people, your fans and feel the love from them to you?
JL - Well, I try to get into an exercise regime, which is what I normally do. Swimming, in particular, is my main activity, because it develops the lungs. I'm in the horrible position of writing songs and singing them with so many words without not much breathing spaces in them (laughs). At the moment, I can't do that, because I'm busy running around panicking, thinking whether I'm going to be drowned with the mudslides, if there's going to be a tsunami, we even had an earthquake warning... then my abscess, all the roads around me closed, impeding me to go anywhere. Plus all the rain we are having, they are a serious issue too, because it's leaking in certain places... Well, you know, maybe that is exactly that kind of environment that God wants me to get ready in! Don't get me wrong, I'm always positive but when you see all this happening around you, you question yourself, like, what's going on? This must be happening for a reason, so use it, because Anger Is An Energy (Lydon paraphrasing one of P.I.L. biggest hits, called Rise).
BR - Have you and the boys got already an idea of how many songs, in total, are going to rehearse and take on tour and what kind of show may your fans expect from P.I.L. in 2025?
JL - Well, Lu Edmonds, our guitarist, he reckons that the list of songs to take on Tour can be cut down to 40! (laughs). I think even for me, that might be a little on the long side. You know, P.I.L. is a band that has been known to go on stage for something like 2 hours and 45 minutes but then, if you play festivals, you need to cut down the shows' duration considerably. Plus, some venues don't allow you to play after the curfew time, which, thinking about it, it's good for us, so we don't fear to turn into Bruce Springsteen or The Grateful Dead (giggles). I suppose that we are limiting the shows, now, between an hour and a half and an hour and three quarters and then it'll be what excites us most. But, we always have the type of repertoire that we can shape-shift and change, it doesn't have to be the same songs every night. I am proud to say that we have a very close bond with our audience. A lot of my experiences in life are the songs that I write and a lot of people feel themselves on their own skin. We all go through tragedies or joyous moments, in some point of our lives and what I love the most, when I am on stage performing, it's to look into people's eyes and they are telling me what part of my songs is them. That can shape-shift the song in pretty dramatic ways, when we are playing live. But we are both very in tune with each other and that is the reason why I feel that they are the fifth member of Public Image Limited.
Lydon on stage
Photo courtesy by Duncan Bryceland
BR - You have always praised, in many interviews, the level of artistic and, in some respect, also human connection, respect and chemistry that you, Bruce (Smith, drums), Scott (Firth, bass) and Lu have between one another. Has there ever been any bump in the road between you guys, since you re-formed P.I.L. and if not, what is the secret about maintaining such a healthy relationships between all of you?
JL - My God, of course! Every time we get into a studio there is a guaranteed row! (smiles). The truth is that we are really very good, close friends, you see, there is no animosity, there is no insult taken and carried on. Basically, there is no divisions, only a genuine appreciation of each other. We are the kind of a band that can enjoy the emotional ride of tension and find the way out of it. It's all part of what music should be, sharing experiences and not selfish dictatorships. Of course, it took me the whole lifetime in music to reach this conclusion, but I have definitely, all through my life, been aiming for it. Heaven help me if I actually achieved such a thing! (smiles). Most of the people that I have worked with in the past, I have remained very friendly with them and it's nice to see how much they advanced their careers in many ways. A few are not so friendly, but that's their problem, that's why they are not there (within the band) anymore, because, evidently, they don't get on with other people, they are less forgiving.
BR - Is there a part of you that feels happier in being recognized, in later years, as John Lydon, singer, songwriter, bandleader of P.I.L., writer and painter, rather than being identified solely as Johnny Rotten, the equally iconic image of the Sex Pistols?
JL - Well, there have been so many shape-shifts, right? (smiles). They happened quite naturally, in my life, it's not like that one wakes up one morning and become a different persona all of a sudden. I am not acting, I just evolve, there is a difference to it. To my neighbours, right now, I am just that irritating bloke that plays his music way too loud late at night! (laughs). I can't listen to music quietly, it needs to sound like "Aaarghhh!" it's got to sound like a bleedin' PA system, it needs to make every bit of bones and flab on me vibrating. Well, at least my neighbours know I have got good taste in music, right? I listen to everything, from Opera to Indie stuff to anything at all. I am just thrilled and excited when I put on a CD or an album, for the effort that every artist went to by writing, recording, releasing and possibly even play live that stuff. It's pure energy and I have got full respect for it. In life, we can all do without judgement but, in a weird way, no we can't! That's the way we gage our way in life. Usually, other people's hatred is so extreme and excessive that it can cheer you up, well, at least just sometimes. Sometimes hatred is so bitter and twisted.. I've got to say, a lot of comments I saw on Nora's death and the death of my best friend Johnny Rambo, some people on the internet got so vicious, about that. There was no need for it, it was just trying to stick knives in me while I was down.. One particularly nasty remark was like "Haha, your wife is dead, that's what you get for marrying an older woman (Lydon's wife was 14 years older than him)" trying to hurt me for having any love in my life at all. That was really low and hurtful.
BR - John, if it can be of any consolation, Italian people have got an old saying for that kind of people which, translated in English, sounds like "The Mother Of Idiots Is Constantly Pregnant"!
JL - (laughs uncontrollably) I just love Italy, what a correct, moving and accurate thought, haha.
BR - John, on the 2nd February was the anniversary of the passing of your friend and Pistols comrade Sid Vicious (Simon John Ritchie). When you think of him, what is the biggest memory of your friendship with him that comes to mind?
JL - He was such an hilarious person. He was a natural born mimic and comedian, he'd laugh at everything. He had this strong, savage humour and a lot of people didn't like that side of him, because it was so braising. He considered himself as the most handsome man in the whole world and there was no convincing him of otherwise. He was kind of parodying himself, in a weird way. I loved his company, he was such a deliciously ironic human being. Then, unfortunately drugs got to him, see, that's the thing. I have always tried to tell people that if you really want to use drugs, don't end up with the drugs using you. You know, especially in environments like the entertaining industry, you get constantly offered things, pretending to keep you groovy and friendly. And those are the sharks that you should be watching out for. If you want to entice my friendship, don't be doing it with a bag of drugs.
BR - John, before we part company, can we ask you whether, at the age of 69 (and, BTW, Happy Belated Birthday (Lydon was born on 31st January 1956)), are you still using Anger As An Energy, so to paraphrase your first book in 2014, or have you learned to mellow a lot more with life and music business in general, maybe also through recent life experiences?
JL - I don't think is possible for me to mellow down, I have always been a relentless machine. I'm the kind of person that sits on a couch and watch TV for three weeks solid and do nothing, but I never stop thinking. I even give up going to the toilet, because it's getting in the way of laziness (chuckles). But the brain never stops, in all that and everything inspires me. Just this morning, there was a crow and it's tapping on the bloody window, so I opened the door and we had a chat! I mean, that's inspiring! I don't see that as a symbolism of, say, death awaiting me, with the raven and all of that, quite the opposite. How dare them putting such a label on a piece of lovely wildlife. I see life, right now, as the only gift that's really well worth having; no matter what encompasses inside of it, just don't give it up!
Public Image Limited will be on Tour later this year, you can find here below the complete list of P.I.L. Tour Dates so far:
